Episode 40: Jamie Krasnov & Clay McKee with Apex Leadership Co. Fundraising Franchise Model

Pam Currie (00:00.94)
Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the Franchise Sisters Business Radio Show, a platform to bring business professionals together to connect and educate to serve aspiring entrepreneurs looking to invest and buy a franchise. I’m your co-host, Pam Curry.

Shari Currie Skjoldager (00:17.075)
And I’m your other co-host, Sherry Curry Skoldager. And on today’s show, we have two guests with the franchise brand, Apex Leadership Company, which is a dynamic fundraising franchise for elementary and middle school. So we’ve got Jamie Krasnov, the CEO at Apex Leadership Company. He has been instrumental in steering the company’s strategy and execution to increase value to the Apex franchisees and Apex schools across the nation.

His determination to elevate the company led to the brand seeing an outstanding 200% revenue increase since he stepped in in the role as CEO in 2021. Before Apex, Jamie founded Heritage Operating Partners, a private equity firm focused on fast-growing franchises. He brings over a decade of experience across private equity, public equity, and investment banking.

Pam Currie (01:15.522)
We also have Clay McKee on the show. Clay is a seasoned franchise executive with over 16 years in development with service brands like Home Helpers, Pure Clean, Handyman Connection, and now Apex leadership company. He has guided over 200 franchisees over this time and helped them with their new businesses. Clay is originally from Kentucky and moved to Cincinnati, our hometown.

Moved to Cincinnati over 20 years ago where he met his now wife. they have two amazing young boys and are in a tight-knit community where they strive to see their boys grow. The Apex mission is very personal to Clay, building tomorrow’s leaders while helping neighborhood schools raise the funds they need to thrive. Welcome, guys.

Jamie Krasnov (02:07.223)
Thank you for having us. Excited to be here.

Clay McKee (02:07.246)
Glad to be here.

Pam Currie (02:10.881)
Passando.

Shari Currie Skjoldager (02:11.145)
Yeah, we are excited to have you, Jamie and Clay. I got a chance to talk to you at our Franceurf Convention over the summertime and just got really excited about this brand. So I’m excited to share it with our listeners. all right, Jamie, we’re gonna start with you. so let’s kick it off. Can you can you tell us the story behind Apex Leadership Company and explain your offer?

Jamie Krasnov (02:29.953)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you again for having us, Sherry. We got to hang out at at you guys’ conference and I left that conversation thinking that you guys do right by franchisees, prospective franchisees. So that’s what we’re all about. and I felt a lot of alignment. I wanted to say hi to Pam, who was across the table, but wasn’t able to do that. So I’m excited to be on here at the Sisters podcast. I think it’s really cool. and talk a little bit about Apex.

Shari Currie Skjoldager (02:57.445)
Yeah.

Jamie Krasnov (03:00.405)
Apex is a unique company. what Apex does is we go, our franchisees go into elementary schools and they put on these big events, usually fitness events. We call it a fun run, but it could be all sorts of things. We have something called a glow-thon, we have an obstacle course, but it’s all kind of fitness related for the kids. and our teams of athletes, which are the young folks that our franchisees hire, they go into the schools at two weeks prior to the event.

Shari Currie Skjoldager (03:25.789)
I think I just yeah Jim.

Jamie Krasnov (03:28.857)
and teach the kids about leadership, fitness, character, all sorts of kind of good guy lessons. And it’s a wonderful experience. It lasts two weeks. And usually what we do is when we go into a school and it’s mostly elementary, but we do middle school and high school is we’ll go to the school and we’ll we’ll promise them that we could raise 10 X what they raise without us. So if we go in there and every school does fundraising, they do a bake sale or an auction or whatever and

A lot of PTA moms know all about this. and they’ll usually raise about five thousand dollars. On average, we’ll raise fifty thousand dollars. It’s just a function of the event being so big, so exciting. There’s a lot of technology that recruits funds from outside the community. Most of the funds come from out of the state. and it just raises a lot of money in a really fun way that’s really easy for the PTA. So naturally, everybody wins, the franchisee wins.

Clay McKee (04:04.281)
Jamie Krasnov (04:24.596)
they’re able to get some revenue out of their fundraise. The school wins in a big way and the and the kids win. And so it turns into this ninety percent recurring revenue type of relationship. The schools come back every year. Franchisee is able to build in some cases help a lot of schools and build a really big profitable business for themselves and help their community at the same time.

it’s really awesome. our franchisees do great and so we’re ready to bring on some more franchisees to spread it to the rest of the country.

Pam Currie (04:58.802)
I like that, Jamie. Thank you for the overview. Thanks for sharing. Clay, let’s get you in here. walk us through the business model. Who is the end customer? Walk us through the business model itself.

Clay McKee (05:11.172)
course and and it’s always amazing to see you ladies every single year. I I feel that we always are bringing that Cincinnati connection together and that Francer connection together. That was a big reason why

Pam Currie (05:23.895)
Do we ask the do I dare ask this question, Clay? Our chill chili parlor of Cincinnati. Is it gold star or skyline for you?

Clay McKee (05:31.406)
it’s it’s Skyline. And and remember, I’m from Kentucky, so that that wasn’t a thing until you marry into a Cincinnati family. a and then then yeah, it it’s Skyline, for sure. So I know I’ll get some haters out there, but that’s that that question’s asked a lot.

Pam Currie (05:49.568)
I have to go with Gold Star just because well, one, I like it, but also secondly, I’m good friends with the CEO of over at Gold Star. We went to college together.

Clay McKee (05:59.589)
Well when you get free stuff from Goldstar I’d say that’d probably be my my put too, but you know.

Shari Currie Skjoldager (05:59.699)
Yeah.

Pam Currie (06:02.543)
Right. Exactly. I’m sorry, I derailed us. Tell us about the Apex business model.

Clay McKee (06:09.602)
Absolutely. So so so one of the reasons why I brought Apex to FranServe, to make sure that that we have the ability to work with with awesome consultants like yourself, is just how fun this business is. I mean this is all about kids, this is all about community. So being able to to to to have franchisees go out and and work directly in their community by working with the PTAs, with the principals.

getting into those schools around their community to bring that much needed fundraising into those schools and bring into the community. I mean that’s that’s really what they’re looking at doing. So so being able to to teach leadership and different developmental fundamental fundamentals into the classrooms, be able to get those kids out outside, get given playing with each other and and being able to raise that money within the schools by

them getting pledges from their family, from their friends. And it’s not just gonna gonna, as Jamie had said, a cookie sale or or or popcorn or whatever it may be that they have to these product sales every year. Then and they’re little salesmen out there. The the sales essentially is done by them asking their loved ones to be able to to donate in to having them do a fun run to collect prizes.

And they can get those from not only down the street, where you’d only get popcorn or or candy bars, now they’re getting it across the country. You know, grandpa that lives in California is able to watch that video and do the funding. So it’s extremely exciting to be able to bring that into more communities and we’ve just had so much growth out.

Pam Currie (07:49.09)
Pam Currie (08:04.087)
So as an Apex franchisee, my end customer and who I’m calling on is are it sounds like schools, right? Schools, I’m assuming athletic coaches, PTA is a good, I guess, customer base to to target. am I capturing that correctly?

Clay McKee (08:17.997)
Mm-hmm.

Clay McKee (08:24.568)
Yeah, y y you’ve really got a f just a few individuals in that school that that really deal with the the the fundraising of the school. So the PTA, PTOs, and and the principals really are the main individuals out there. And a lot of times it’s not even somebody’s full-time job. You know, it’s a part-time, it it’s a volunteer. You know, they’re hoping somebody can come in and volunteer their hours because they don’t really have the budget to to to pay that person. So what’s great about

Apex coming into those schools is they don’t have to lift a finger. The with the Apex team will come in, set up everything, lay it all out with the teachers, be able to come into the classroom, set up the fun run, do all of the the the pledges, donations, everything to where the school is getting back to what Jamie talked about, 10 times the amount that they would do that’s so much more labor intensive for them and the kids.

Then Apex just coming in and putting on an amazing, amazing event.

Pam Currie (09:28.983)
And and then as a as a franchisee, so a great example, like you just said, would be one of the fundraising events might be a fun run. And and then is the franchisee as the local owner of that franchise? Are they coordinating and overseeing it? And and what does that look like?

Clay McKee (09:37.828)
Mm-hmm.

Jamie Krasnov (09:37.966)
Mm-hmm.

Clay McKee (09:51.609)
Yeah, so the the the owner themselves, I mean, mainly is going to be going out and marketing, of course, to those schools. what the other side is what they’re doing is they’re hiring a small team, you know, very lean, just a few individuals that’ll be those team leads that will essentially go out and run the events. So once the the owner has done their marketing job of getting those schools set up for that two week time period.

Pam Currie (09:57.932)
Okay.

Clay McKee (10:17.604)
Then their team is the one that goes in and puts on that that two-week event, which starts out with a pep rally, which I think we all remember pep rallies at our school and football team or the the cheerleaders get out there and everybody gets all hyped up. That’s what those team leads are like. They’re like athletes, they’re extremely personable, and they’re setting up what’s going to happen over the next two weeks.

what’s what the engagement that’s gonna happen in the classrooms and then it culminates at the end of those two weeks with a fun run or a color run or a remix. So if it’s raining outside or snowing, they can do a remix and inside and there’s just so much energy and excitement that culminates at the end. that’s where you know the real magic

Pam Currie (11:08.343)
So help help us understand the revenues. Cause obviously I’m hearing pledges, I’m hearing fundraising, and I love that you have a broad reach, right? It’s not just a localized fundraiser because, like you said, the little salesmen, they can reach out to family and friends out of state for pledges. but walk us through the revenue stream. How does that work for the business owner and how does that work for the school?

Clay McKee (11:17.85)
Right.

Jamie Krasnov (11:36.047)
Yeah, I’ll I’ll take that one, Clay, if you don’t mind. so it’s really simple. and it goes through our payment processor, so it gets done simply and goes straight to our franchisees and the schools. so the schools that we go serve, they’re they’re coming to us because it’s a PTA mom or prince president. And I mean, one, this isn’t her full time job. She didn’t necessarily sign up to do this. It might be her first time in the role.

Clay McKee (11:36.43)
Yeah. What? Mm-hmm.

Jamie Krasnov (12:04.298)
and and two, she wants they don’t have any money at the school and they might want to do something kind of unique, like build a jungle gym at the school or returf the field or buy all the kids’ laptops. So they’re coming to us for those two reasons. So we don’t charge them. We don’t charge them on the outside. It’s free on the outset. Like we will come in, and if we don’t perform, you don’t pay us. but if we do perform on a fifty thousand dollar fundraiser, for example.

we will end up taking two twenty thousand dollars our franchisee will to pay for their staff, all the equipment, and then make a profit. And the remainder will go to the school. So based on levels of fundraise, there’s a different amount of revenue. and the reality is we have we always perform. we’ve never not, you know, collected the revenues or franchisees have never not collected the revenue because it’s a very rinse and repeat kind of model. So there’s no expense to the school.

Pam Currie (13:00.695)
Mm.

Jamie Krasnov (13:03.02)
unless we perform. And when we do perform, they go from let’s say five thousand dollars of fundraise to thirty thousand. That leaves about twenty thousand dollars for our franchisee to pay their team, to pay their staff, to pay for the equipment and materials, and then ultimately to make a profit.

Pam Currie (13:21.387)
Makes perfect sense. Makes sense to me. thank you for explaining that because I I know that can get a little bit confusing. you know, how the revenue divide occurs. can we talk a little bit about the history of Apex? Jamie, you refounded in twenty eleven, is that right?

Jamie Krasnov (13:40.623)
So we Apex was started in 2010 from an original entrepreneur. his wife was a teacher, and they were young, she was young, he was young, but they the teeth and this still happens today, the teacher had the teachers had to pay for their posters. and so he wasn’t about that, because you know neither of them had any money at the time. So they tried to do a fundraiser and they did it. He was a fitness guy, and they did it in a fitness way, and they did something pretty similar to what we do today, which is

They put on this big event for all the kids and anyone who donated, they just kinda counted the money at the end to see what happened. And it was this huge I mean, it was just this huge influx of money that they didn’t even account for. And they did it so they could pay for the teacher’s materials, for his wife’s materials and the other materials. And the money was just way bigger and the energy from the PTAs and the students and the whole thing was just way bigger than he could have ever fathomed. So

The thing spread quickly. I don’t think it was his original intention to make this like the full real business it is today, but it sped spread really quickly throughout Arizona. And a franchising executive saw it in Arizona and was like, Wow, there’s this thing called service based franchises, which is really opening up the market for like entrepreneurs who can’t do a two million dollar restaurant. They want to be their own business owner, they wanna get started, but they’re not, you know.

ten millionaires or whatever. It democratizes it to to a lot of people out there. And and that was burgeoning at the time, which was maybe 2010, 2011. so they franchised it. and it it ended up being really good for the business because these local executives who never really should have, never would have been involved in helping schools, found a commercial way to to help schools and it took off.

and over the next ten years, you know, it grew and they we’ve added great franchisees. And but it was still kind of small and e until to twenty twenty one and small compared to like, you know, big companies out there. Which is when I founded my my investment firm, which was backed by some institutional investors and whatnot, who asked me to go buy a company and become CEO of that company. I had traditionally been more of a investor and they were like, We want you to run the show. So

Jamie Krasnov (15:59.855)
I was looking for something that I was passionate about. And man, this thing is off the wall. But I was also looking for something that I thought would grow. And the way that I determined whether it would grow was is this business good for the franchisee? What what should I look for in determining whether my franchisees can be successful? Because we support the franchisees really hard and

I really want to say more about that support and training. But ultimately, the business of franchising is built on the backs of your franchisees. So I was looking for happy franchisees that were successful and growing and all those things. And I looked through every franchise out there. I downloaded all the FDDs. I read them just like a lot of your candidates probably do. And this one checked every box times 10. So it checked every box. What

More than I could find in any other FTD. I called the owners. They were big zealots for the business because it’s really, really cool business. and then you just when you see this thing in person, you can’t say no to it. It you just you just can’t. Like at our discovery days, our confirmation days, man, people walk away with like stars in their eyes. So and I did too when I was buying the business. so I bought it in twenty twenty one and I thought, man, this is still pretty niche, even though it’s grown a lot. We need to bring this to every community.

in the country. So we’ve done that. We’ve triple, doubled the revenue in the first couple of years, which has been great. and we’re in a lot of schools now, you know, thousands of schools, helping millions of kids now, which is great. We’re able to work with great executives now that have professionalized the business. But the long-term game plan is you got to put this in every school because it’s just too good. and so that’s what we’re working on and and and trying to turn into a reality.

Pam Currie (17:35.703)
Yeah.

Pam Currie (17:47.692)
Mm-hmm.

Pam Currie (17:54.045)
I I love the passion around it. So Jamie, how where are you sitting right now when you think about your system, number of number of franchisees, what does that look like right now?

Shari Currie Skjoldager (18:00.927)
Good.

Jamie Krasnov (18:06.808)
So we have about fifty franchisees. and they do about play, I’m gonna get the number on the button, nine hundred and fifteen thousand in revenue on average each. So they’re almost doing about almost a million bucks. And they’re successful, the margins are good. We can speak more about the financial and they’re all growing, or many, many most of them are growing, our system is growing. We have good what’s called same store sales, you know, our existing franchisees continue to grow.

Shari Currie Skjoldager (18:14.209)
Yeah.

Jamie Krasnov (18:36.27)
and it’s been largely around that Phoenix, Arizona start. So California, we have a lot of successful franchisees. In Washington, we have a lot of successful franchisees. Kind of bleeds into Texas, San Antonio, Dallas, Houston, we still have a lot of openings, right? But still very successful in Houston. And as you go east in the business, it becomes very open. So everything to the east of where I’m sitting in Houston is very open, not a hundred percent, but

very, very, very open. And so we still think we’re at the beginning stages and this thing has just kind of regionally had a lot of success and we want to bring it to more of a national kind of stage.

Pam Currie (19:16.331)
Do most of your franchisees have a single territory or are they in multi multi-territories? How’s that look?

Jamie Krasnov (19:23.32)
We we we we really want to s work with franchisees that grow for the long term and build real businesses. And so most have two units, some have ten units. but our strategy has been to find these awesome partners at the burgeoning stage of their entrepreneurship journey when they believe they’re gonna be an amazing entrepreneur and we believe they’re gonna be an amazing entrepreneur, they just need the training.

And to just invest, invest, invest, invest in those right people, just nonstop invest in them. Because the payoff is amazing for us and the payoff is amazing for them. but that usually involves buying two territories and continue to grow the business even higher.

Pam Currie (20:11.979)
And you said that your vision is to be in every school. Apex to be in every school. I like that vision. I any other anything else to share as bro in regards to the vision of Apex?

Jamie Krasnov (20:23.342)
I’ll just kind of share one last thing. There are there are great companies out there that help a lot of kids. You know, we look at like companies like Scholastic, which is just a name brand company now in the school space that everybody knows. And there there’s a lot of companies like that in the school pace that are trying to do right by by the community. I think Scholastic is trying to help kids read and you know, there are several other book companies, so on and so forth that are helping

Shari Currie Skjoldager (20:27.7)
Okay.

Jamie Krasnov (20:51.958)
helping kids. And when those companies help the schools correctly, there’s there’s and everybody’s winning, they become everywhere. They just are in every single school. They catch on like wildfire. It happens like at the micro level first, like one school becomes a district, but we see it regionally too. One district becomes a city. And so our business is just dominating these cities where we’ve put franchisees in place and they’ve really run with it. But

Pam Currie (21:05.153)
Wildfire.

Jamie Krasnov (21:21.346)
Just like those other companies that help schools, we expect to be in ninety percent of the schools, be a name brand. We already are in several pockets, but we want that to be more of a national type of reputation.

Shari Currie Skjoldager (21:35.677)
I love it. I love that. I’m going to add a little cherry on top of that. You mentioned how you found Apex as you were looking for something that was going to allow the franchisee to be successful because you know that a business is riding on the backs of your franchisee. And I love that. But another piece that you brought up, and I’m just trying to tie them together, is a business that really supports the community. And and what you guys are bringing to these kids is not for them.

Jamie Krasnov (22:01.206)
Yeah.

Shari Currie Skjoldager (22:04.825)
only to be a tool to bring money into their schools, which is an important tool, but you’re bringing you’re educating them on leadership skills. You’re giving them not cookies or chocolate bars to pass out, but to do a physical activity to become physically strong. And that naturally builds this internal community within the school of I I kind of equated it when I was talking to you guys over at the convention.

Of going to camp for a week or two. These kids get so energized in interacting with one another, encouraging one another, and understanding the value of leadership and kindness to one another. And that in and of itself is what schools are looking for. But then you throw on getting some money to put in the bank to make the school even better. That combination I think is definitely a winning ticket. But

Jamie Krasnov (22:54.978)
Yeah, thanks for saying that. Yeah. I just added one thing. Yeah, when I was on the outset, when we say we raise ten X, it’s true and it’s amazing. But when I after I invested in the business and started talking to all the customers, they they see that and they get amazed by that. Also, it’s so easy for the principal or PTA. But the reason we stick with the schools and have this recurring revenue model, which is like, I gotta tell you, there’s a lot of great brands at Francer. They’re great, and I’ve seen them.

Shari Currie Skjoldager (23:19.541)
Nothing.

Jamie Krasnov (23:23.384)
But I’d never seen a brand with such high recurring revenue as Apex. is because the kids love it. I mean, it’s just hard to say no once you see this thing. and so Sherry, we were talking about Yeah, it’s like going back to camp. Yeah. The the the the athletes in the school are kind of like camp counselors. That’s kind of what they are.

Pam Currie (23:32.076)
Yeah.

Shari Currie Skjoldager (23:32.403)
Who doesn’t want to go back to come up?

Shari Currie Skjoldager (23:42.761)
Yeah. No, I love it. speaking of just ki I wanted to dig in on the other side, which is just franchisees, trying to understand what it is that you’re looking for. Can you tell us what the qualities and characteristics are that that a franch for a franchisee to have to be successful?

Clay McKee (23:59.557)
Yeah, you know, this is something that I’ve I’ve been familiar with for the sixteen years I’ve been in in franchising is is the type of candidate that I look for is is typically that corporate refugee. You know, the one that is maybe not wanting to to to wait all the way to be sixty-five, seventy and and be you know, then collect social security or something of that nature. These are individuals that really want to get out in their community, run it lean.

Because this is a very low cost entry type of of business. because it doesn’t have a lot of overhead, it doesn’t have the brick and mortar, you know, all of those that a lot of employees. So it’s something that an individual can get into very lean. Well, we really want to see somebody that’s just got that just glowing personality. You know, they can go out, they can they have no problem talking with the school, being able to to market, you know, out there and and you know, because that’s really

getting into that school is gonna be a majority of what they do. Building that team as well is important, but getting out and getting into those those schools, you know, building it from 10 to 20 to 30 to 50, you know, and and so on, going out and then and then grooming those relationships year after year to get that recurring revenue. So so you know those those are there’s there’s a lot we have particular individuals that we know just do great with this business.

And it’s a and it’s a it’s a vast amount of individuals that are out there, but that that corporate refugee, that that personable individual, maybe husband-wife, one continues to work, one goes into the business full-time, and the yin and the yang of of their personal relationship extends into their business relationship, and that way it really does give the ability for both of them to kind of have a a tone in the business.

Shari Currie Skjoldager (25:57.843)
And you kind of tapped touched on this, Clay, but I just want to make sure I’m clear. So for your franchisees, you’re looking for them to be fully involved operators. Do you permit semi involved at all or is it

Clay McKee (26:09.092)
We do want to see a a full time operator because you know I think a a a part time operator is gonna see part time results and we’re not looking for part time results. We know we want an individual to fully engage with their community, with their their with the students and so going out there and and running it lean in that sense that you know it it just takes one person to go out and fully engage themselves, can be different than a lot of other

franchise opportunities, but still that one person that could devote themselves into it, build that up, and then become the least important person in the business. Which as they hand those hats off, they then have the ability to take a step back, which most true entrepreneurs are just gonna say, let me replicate it again. And let me keep doing it again. So they never really want to get totally out of the business. But that that’s really who we’re looking for.

Jamie Krasnov (26:46.957)
Yeah.

Jamie Krasnov (26:56.172)
Yeah.

Shari Currie Skjoldager (27:03.805)
And then no, that’s that’s great. I understand. I I I’m a big believer in that you got you gotta put some time in, understand your business inside and out before you can start overseeing people. so you know what you’re overseeing, basically. But okay, so the day in the life as a franchisee, am I primarily like the business developer? And then I use and who’s my team to actually run these, you know, runs and these.

Clay McKee (27:28.282)
Yeah.

Pam Currie (27:29.941)
Yeah.

Shari Currie Skjoldager (27:30.235)
obstacle courses and all these cool things that you can let the kids do to get excited.

Clay McKee (27:35.685)
Yeah, it sounds like you gotta have this huge team to be able to do that. I thought that at the beginning until you really got out and saw that two people can go and run a two week event at a school that has hundreds of kids. And you’re wondering how does that happen? But it really, as a pep rally happens, typically you remember there was like the captain of the of the football team and the the the captain of the cheerleading team would have the microphones and they would talk to everybody.

Well, that’s essentially who we have out there is these really personable individuals. Like I I challenge you to watch the videos and not have a big smile on your face when you watch because they’re all decked out, orange and blue, and they’re really hyped up and they’re getting on the mic and they’re they’re getting everybody together. And then they say, We’re gonna be back tomorrow in your classrooms and throughout the next two weeks, and they go to each individual classroom.

throughout the those those next couple two weeks to essentially culminate to the end fun run, blow run, which is some inflatable equipment that they put up, some cones that they put out, and they know exactly how to be able to run all of those kids class by class, you know, fifth graders and kindergartners, third and fourth. And they run throughout the entire day, let them get the the prizes and everything else that they’re excited about. So

It it only takes a few out there and the owner mean they just need to get those the those schools set up and they’re they’re gonna be out there during those those times when school starts up in August, you know, through through the winter when a class comes back in in the spring. But most owners all have the summer off, which is pretty amazing because the schools aren’t in session, the kids aren’t there, so

That gives them a chance to go travel, do whatever they may do with this business.

Shari Currie Skjoldager (29:37.725)
Ooh, I like that. Summers off. Who doesn’t like that? With the 915,000 gross. That’s really nice. and you know what else I really like is the employees or or you know, you’re gribbing every elementary school lives and dies for the football player in high school. You get them out there on the field and getting them charged up in the classroom. The kids are so engaged. They’re so excited because it’s a young adult and they like that.

Pam Currie (29:41.868)
Jamie Krasnov (29:44.535)
Exactly.

Jamie Krasnov (30:05.473)
Exactly.

Shari Currie Skjoldager (30:07.025)
And then you could get some college kids. So it’s just the opportunity for for who you need to do the work is I would say pretty strong.

Jamie Krasnov (30:14.188)
Yeah, you got it right on the button. Yeah. Especially for young kids, they light up. They light up like that. And that profile is out there. They they just graduated college and they don’t want to go work at a call center or a restaurant or whatever, what the typical jobs are for entry level. They want to keep doing something they can be themselves and passionate about. And then when they come work for us and they work more than a year.

Shari Currie Skjoldager (30:21.887)
They light up.

Pam Currie (30:22.143)
Right.

Jamie Krasnov (30:42.306)
they stay for like five, ten years. So you got to keep more than a year so that they feel the full experience of it. But then they kind of fall in love with us. We’re a mission-based company. They can be themselves and they’d be great partners for our for our franchisees and then sometimes us too as franchise partners.

Shari Currie Skjoldager (30:58.901)
That’s awesome. You know, Jamie, you kind of tapped into wanting to share a little bit more detail about your training and support. Do you wanna share what the onboarding training program looks like for franchisees?

Jamie Krasnov (31:09.122)
Yeah, for sure. So we doubled the size of the business. It’s been a lot of fun by finding great owners and training the heck out of them. so we just everything we’ve invested in is around making the franchise experience easier and easier and easier. people, you know, we hi we’ve hired twenty-five we we’ve taken the staff from five to thirty in the last three years. And as we’ve grown, we’ve been able to work with amazing people like Clay. you know, Clay is sees this business just like I did and is like

Wow, this thing is great. Let’s get involved. so so we’ve been just investing nonstop into the business to just make the franchise experience easier with the right people on our team, in the right process, and then the right technology to automate it. So support right now we have about a two to one ratio between home office employees and franchisees. So there’s two home office employees. Sorry, there’s one home office employee.

for every franchise for every two franchisees. So like you’re getting like pretty significant support, you know, half a person, so to speak, supporting your business, helping you scale with the right systems and processes. But to get like really into the weeds just for a second, you know, we end up finding a great entrepreneur and deciding, hey, we wanna go with this person and they say the same thing to us. And then it starts day one. Day one is when it starts.

So we have a very aggressive onboarding plan. So if you want to get your business cranking quickly, we’re probably the right type of business for you. And it involves with a lot of desktop homework first, researching the schools, understanding what they’re currently doing, preparing. We bring them to Houston, our new franchisees for a week and sometimes even more. We train them on how to tell our story, tell their story, work the systems, all that kind of stuff.

Then they go out into the field for a week and they work with franchisees so they understand the mechanics of how this thing works. And it’s go, go, go. So we can get their business cranking and cranking out cash flow for them and their family so that it’s sustainable. and once it’s sustainable, we’re good because after that, the schools will start talking. We have playbooks for that, and you’ll start growing more exponentially after that as the referrals go in.

Pam Currie (33:21.633)
Mm.

Jamie Krasnov (33:33.783)
And what I really like about our business and and why I tell folks semi-absentee is not the way that works for us, is if we just grind on the business for a year, maybe more two years, three years, the nature of this business and the systems in place are that it’s going to pay you and your family and support you forever. Forever. The schools come back. and so we we take a very aggressive

training and onboarding where we invest a lot, but it’s all in an effort to get the franchisee going now, so they can support their business and their family as fast as possible.

Clay McKee (34:04.067)
Mm-hmm.

Pam Currie (34:12.189)
Nice. Quick to launch, right? Quick to launch, quick to cash flow, and sustainability. three key key qualities that you want in a business model. And even though this is a service-based franchise that is mission driven, fundraising, character driven, right? Building the the qualities and of character within our youth, but it is not a nonprofit. So we want to be clear on that as well.

Jamie Krasnov (34:17.08)
Hundred percent.

Pam Currie (34:41.129)
Money matters, right? so you’ve already alluded to the fact that to become a franchise owner, it’s a lower cost of entry. What is your estimated initial investment as a franchisee?

Clay McKee (34:53.444)
Yeah, this is in in a just a a great wheelhouse of of investments out here ’cause you know, it’s not pocket change by any means, but then again it’s not the exorbitant cost that you’ll find with you know more brick and mortar or or or or equipment heavy, overhead heavy types of businesses. So franchise fees right about fifty thousand. I’d like to see a franchisee have about seventy-five thousand to to have for that first year to be able to to put into the business.

Pam Currie (35:11.093)
Uh-huh.

Clay McKee (35:23.034)
To run it properly. Like Jamie had talked about earlier, we do allow individuals to to come in with two markets. we don’t want people to bite off more than they can chew, but then again, we want to make sure that they’ve got a lot of growth and expansion for for for ahead because there’s so many schools in each market. So all in about 200,000 on the two territories, which again it’s not pocket change, but

Comparative to a lot that you see out there and the returns that we have, that Jamie will talk about, you know, i there’s very few that can contend into that. And like you said too, it is a very quick startup. I’ve been used to to industries before that add months, you know, weeks, months, almost a year in some to even get started because of regulation. this is one that there isn’t that. So

you really are at that point to say, let’s hit it, let’s get to training, and let’s implement it within the school.

Pam Currie (36:17.889)
Uh-huh.

Jamie Krasnov (36:26.008)
Sherry, can I add one thing to that real quick? That’s really perfectly said. Exactly. I just would say, like this whole service-based franchise or thing, I said it earlier. It’s our our goal is to build more leaders and help kids. And we do that by recruiting these amazing entrepreneurs who otherwise wouldn’t be doing that. They’d be working at Microsoft or something like that. so us and other service-based franchisers, this is just a nod to that.

Pam Currie (36:45.601)
Mm-hmm.

Jamie Krasnov (36:51.512)
Have really democratized, we want those entrepreneurs with us. And this low ticket upfront and cost has democratized business ownership and success in business ownership. And so that’s been an amazing thing. So when you have business people with, you know, they didn’t grow up with $50 million in the bank, right? And can buy 10 restaurants, but they too want to be an entrepreneur, just like a lot of other folks, but they did not have the 50 million, these service-based franchise like us.

are trying to democratize business ownership. and we do that very selfishly because we want these incredibly talented people who have so much to give at this point in their career and want to give it to themselves, their family, and their legacy. Nothing wrong with working in Microsoft, but they don’t want to give it to Microsoft.

Pam Currie (37:41.941)
Agreed. Okay. So that let’s talk about the item nineteen because I I you kind of you threw out a number there. Talk to us a little bit about that.

Shari Currie Skjoldager (37:42.292)
I’ll stay in.

Clay McKee (37:54.053)
Well, I I like I said, this is something that low in entry but but high return. Jamie kind of alluded to some some numbers earlier. We’re gonna be redoing some numbers here soon, even in in in October. Ours is a little different with the fiscal year than than most others. We redo ours in in October, but the the average owners will do right about nine hundred and fifteen thousand, which is

Pam Currie (38:22.209)
Nice.

Clay McKee (38:22.618)
You know, y you don’t we don’t want anybody to ever come in to be average. And I don’t think anybody ever sees themselves coming in as coming in wanting to be average. but looking at I think it’s about a hundred and ninety-seven thousand, close to two hundred thousand, and and and what individuals are being able to put back in their pocket is a very high profitability revenue business with just being an average individual there. But then where we really want individuals to strive to is that

Jamie Krasnov (38:46.391)
Yeah.

Clay McKee (38:52.964)
that that that top tier, that top twenty five percent that you’re doing over one point eight million, putting about four hundred and twenty-five thousand dollars back in their pocket and we can back up all of those that information in the item nineteen. We can be able to show the growth and while it may be a smaller number of franchisees that that we have that are out there, what they’re doing and how they’re growing year after year, it it gets me excited er when it comes to the point where w we get to renew

These FDBs because we’re going to show the growth again and again because this is hitting more and more corners of the US. And that’s what Jamie and I plan to continue to do, find those right people, have that investment come in, grow those numbers, and be able to have people live a life that they never dreamed that they would have, you know, working for themselves rather than for someone else.

Pam Currie (39:50.136)
That’s an impressive financial performance representation. especi it is, right? especially with no no no bricks and mortar, service oriented no bricks and mortar, lower overhead and high gross revenue. That’s a beautiful combination.

Jamie Krasnov (40:04.218)
And and you only get there and you only get there by helping a lot of schools and a lot of kids. But but if you do that you get rewarded hand in hand with those schools and with those communities.

Pam Currie (40:09.079)
Yeah. Yep.

Clay McKee (40:16.464)
Yeah, and you take it a step further, yeah, y again, you have the summers off. So you’re kind of doing that business with about eight or nine months. when you really look at it and to be able to to do that recurring every single year, you know, about ninety plus percent, you know, that’s that’s kind of unheard of in in the service.

Pam Currie (40:39.477)
Wants to take this next question because it’s always a little bit of a a sticky question because people are always like, Well, why do I have to pay that royalty fee? Well, that’s how the franchise or survives and makes money. who wants to tackle your royalty? How explain that to us.

Jamie Krasnov (41:00.27)
Yeah, I’ll take it. so you know, us as a franchise or we’re a for-profit business. And as a for-profit business, you can make profits, or you can also just reinvest those figures back into the business. our s long term, we will make a big profit in this business by helping a lot of schools. but our strategy so far has been to reinvest it. So for us, when we collect our royalties today, we reinvest them back into the business.

by hiring lot of people. So we we ha like I said, we’ve in we’ve increased the staff by 5x by double and and doubled the the the revenues or tripled the revenues of the business now. and we’ll keep doing that. One day we will take a profit in this business, a substantial profit I think, if we’re able to achieve the mission that we have. But right now, the opportunity to help so many franchisees and spread it to more corners of the country

Pam Currie (41:29.919)
Yes.

Jamie Krasnov (41:57.995)
it’s worth us to reinvest back into those franchisees. So that’s been our strategy. We’ll keep doing that. That’s what we use our royalties for. And one day what it’ll all pay off and and we hope just like our schools, we’ll win, our franchisees will win, everybody will.

Clay McKee (42:12.494)
If I’ll tell you just to to jump into the the the exact numbers and we’ll we’ll go over this now actually be going over this with with your candidates at a particular point is an eight percent royalty, which a lot of of franchise owners out there are well north of ten when you really look at what’s out there. And the beauty about here too is that our we’re not pulling those from from the franchisees.

Pam Currie (42:12.918)
So

Pam Currie (42:29.983)
Uh-huh.

Clay McKee (42:39.588)
Which which always, you know, is like, man, here I gotta pay this amount or I gotta do this. This is a push, which is completely different in in in a lot of the industries. As the pledges come in and those monies come in to to where we’re we’re getting the school their amount and then the franchisee is there getting their amount, you know, those rules have been taken out of there to where that money that’s put into the the the owner’s bank account is their money. So

Pam Currie (43:06.455)
Mm-hmm.

Clay McKee (43:07.876)
They’re able to say, I know exactly what I’m getting out here. I know those royalties are going toward building this brand, you know, quadrupling, templing, whatever the the you know, times five with the with the employees that’s going to my support, my structure, everything that’s going to continue to help me build this brand. So you you know, you know, you pay your taxes and you you hope to see that they fill that pothole. Well

Pam Currie (43:35.423)
Mm-hmm.

Clay McKee (43:35.684)
You pay the royalty and you know that that it’s going towards building this branch.

Pam Currie (43:40.652)
Yeah. I would say with service-based businesses, I’m speaking general here. Usually I see between six and ten percent, you know, kind of right there, as kind of a standard royalty. So that’s to your point, Clay, I think that that is a very appropriate percentage as in regards to what we see out there. you also mentioned that it is not pocket change to get into the business.

Are you seeing some common funding strategies f happening with your franchisees? what are you seeing?

Clay McKee (44:16.568)
Yeah, so so there’s a lot of the the point that comes to you all. So you all get to talk, you know, a lot of times with these candidates first and and you’re helping them, you know, understand a lot of different routes out there. You know, we can do that as well, but it’s it’s it’s really a lot of times a mixture of different funds. So what what I see a lot that works really well would be

you know, a certain amount of cash that they want to put towards that. But then maybe they said, look, I’ve worked for thirty years for the Microsoft and I you know I’ve got this four one K that’s sitting there that I guess I’m just gonna keep here running. Well, what if you took a hundred and fifty, two hundred thousand dollars of that and and and you do what’s called a ROBS, which you can do non taxable and non penalized to invest into yourself. So who better to invest the monies into rather than

whomever you had that 401k in, than yourself into a proven business. And I was thinking that’s just a great, great way to not touch your liquid cash, to invest into yourself, and not have to pay you know, a an interest that that goes on month after month for getting that money. but if you are going to take out a loan, one of the ones that I really love is all of our houses are worth so much more than they were even seven years ago.

Helps are great opportunities because you can get that as long as an SBA loan. Maybe it’s five, seven, ten years, and you only have to pay the interest on the loan. So at those beginning moments where you’re not seeing the cash flows that you’re you’re you’re used to in year three and four and five, you can only pay the own interest onto that. And then as that business builds up very quickly, pay that loan down. So

So you know there’s there’s tiers that I see, there’s so many different options that people have out there. But you all do such a great job of helping us identify that and then we can we can extend that on to the the candidates as well. So lots of options.

Pam Currie (46:16.235)
Yeah.

Pam Currie (46:24.617)
Exactly. Yeah, there are definitely funding specialists in the franchise business community that can help you put together a wise funding strategy. And I want to throw one other thought out there because sometimes this one gets overlooked. because you did mention the corporate refugee, that’s out there. They’ve got a nice nest egg. very often you can get a line of credit on that stock portfolio. And it’s very similar to a HELOC, but it’s on your stock brokerage account.

So that’s another consideration. So there are definitely different funding strategies that anyone could take advantage of. And sometimes it’s a blend, not one or the other. great, great information, guys. Thanks so much for sharing. Are are there any questions or that I should have asked that I didn’t? Any additional thoughts you would like to share?

Jamie Krasnov (47:16.534)
I’ll I’ll take one real quick. you know, Apex, I for if you’re looking to be a business owner and be an entrepreneurship and you’re you know, there are c there are some opportunities to do that from scratch. I I invested in a franchising franchise because I believe in franchising. I think it helps you reduce risk and have a higher chance of success. And I think it’s a better fit if you’re a career executive, maybe than you know, you just got out of high school or or you have

Infinite net worth. so I think it’s a good fit. So I think, and service-based franchisers are a good fit if you find the right one that fits with you well. For us, we are looking for owners. we’re not going to be the right fit for every single owner, but we are going to be the right fit for some owners. and if we find somebody that we think is aligned with our values, wants to build a business, can resonate, and has the drive to get in front of schools, and really the drive also to bounce back.

I think that’s a big part of business ownership, is there’s so many learnings that you learn, you fail, you get better, you get better, you get better. they’re gonna be a good fit for us. And then if we find that person, we are going to invest in them. We’re gonna back up the truck, because we’re gonna want them to be successful. That’s our strategy, is to find the right owners and then just give them everything we got that other people have other strategies.

but if you’re that type of person and that type of environment feels like the right environment for you, we might be a good partner. And if not, there’s other franchises as well, or maybe not franchising if you don’t want to be an entrepreneur, but that’s who we are and that’s what we’re

Clay McKee (48:58.126)
And I’ll I’ll tell you one other thing is that you know a lot of people talk about culture and how great the culture is. Well, you know, talk can be one thing, but it this company gives you the feels. If you can literally feel the culture, you know, that’s what happened to me, you know, coming in and seeing that. It’s what I’ve I’ve seen on on the franchisees faces. when you get the feels of of

Pam Currie (48:58.209)
Yeah, and she it’s very cool.

Clay McKee (49:27.32)
what’s going on through the pep rally through through the fun run to see this, to see the the smiles on the kids’ faces. You know, I know we are a for-profit business, but there is something that’s that’s that’s you can’t monetize when it when it comes into a business that gives you the feels and there’s nothing like it I’ve ever seen but hatred.

Pam Currie (49:47.512)
Yeah, it’s great to be able to make money and have it be rewarding. I mean, right? That’s that’s a good combination. Very satisfying. that could that thank you for sharing all of that. And by the way, Sherry and I have a methodology, we call it align. It’s all about alignment. And that’s sort of to your point, Jamie. it’s, you know, we have an align methodology. The purpose is to find candidates that align with the franchise or.

Jamie Krasnov (49:52.142)
It’s lot of fun. Those two things together are a lot of fun. Yeah.

Clay McKee (49:55.316)
Pam Currie (50:16.247)
It’s gotta be a mutual fit. So I I agree with you. Yep.

Jamie Krasnov (50:19.064)
Both sides, yeah.

Shari Currie Skjoldager (50:22.453)
All right, you guys, it has been great having you on the podcast. Pam and I always like to wrap it up with a final question. So I’m gonna go ahead and toss it out to J Jamie first and then to Clay. So here’s your final question, Jamie. In closing, what tips would you give to budding entrepreneurs?

Jamie Krasnov (50:40.14)
I only have one tip. Just one tip. It doesn’t matter how you do it, but when you are coming from whatever background, but let’s we’ve been talking about corporate background, you’re probably really good at a few things. Let’s say you’re a finance person, you’re probably killer at finance, or sales, you’re probably killer at sales. But to run any business, it’s great if you’re killer at something, but you gotta be at least okay at a at a other things, operations, finance.

You don’t have to be a star. You can hire people to support you, but you gotta be okay at it. And there is going to be lessons learned as you scale up on those things. And they’re they’re not they can be painful or less painful, but there is learnings. So anybody who feels confident that they can bounce back at anything, sales, operations, team, HR, finance, whatever, and learn and bounce back.

As opposed to just learn and then if your if your attitude goes bad, it’s gonna be tough because it’s it’s your business and the whole business will have that attitude. But if you’re able to bounce back and have a positive attitude, you do that enough times. It is just mathematically gonna work. So if you have a good bounce back and you can learn and keep a good attitude and you’re going into your entrepreneurship journey with that, you’re in already awesome shape. You’re in really, really good shape.

Pam Currie (52:02.359)
I like that. Bounce back. I like that.

Jamie Krasnov (52:03.874)
Just bounce back. That’s it.

Shari Currie Skjoldager (52:05.581)
Back, good attitude. That’s good combination. how about you, Clay? In closing, what tips would you give to budding entrepreneurs?

Clay McKee (52:13.378)
Really, I think there’s three things that an individual that’s considering buying a business truly needs to be able to look at. They’ve got to answer these questions. And you all do an amazing job helping them really with the first first two Indy But you know, first they need to be able to to look at the industries out there. It can be overwhelming. I mean there’s there’s thousands upon thousands of franchises, but find what you truly have a passion for.

Shari Currie Skjoldager (52:23.837)
Yeah.

Clay McKee (52:41.888)
And be able to know that you’re going to be able to do this two years, five years, ten years from now, that you really see that. It’s something that’s going to have longevity. Two, once you’ve found that, then find the best brand that does that. And be able to embrace that culture. Go in, find that this is the hat that you can put on every day and know that you’re going to represent that that brand. And what’s great about Apex is there’s really not a lot that out there that do that.

We put the phone back in fundraising. So that is really where you want to be able to look at the first two. And then the third, once you’ve answered both of those, is you truly have to be able to look in a mirror and ask yourself, are you ready to be able to follow their system to a T and be able to go out and embrace the the culture, the process, the brand, and be able to implement that? And if you can answer all three of them.

Then you absolutely do it. You know you’re in the right

Pam Currie (53:45.655)
Great advice and really appreciate you guys being guests on the show today. we’re gonna go ahead and just send a final message out to our listeners. If you are considering franchise ownership, reach out and request a free franchise sisters discovery call. We also would like to send you our ebook, Top 10 Questions to Consider Before Investing in a Franchise.

Shari Currie Skjoldager (53:45.821)
Very good.

Shari Currie Skjoldager (54:11.445)
That’s right. Our mission is to help you navigate the franchise selection and buying process through our client-centric align-wise methodology and to put you in a position to make an informed decision with the help of our investigate before you invest toolkit.

Pam Currie (54:27.275)
Right. Thanks for tuning in. Fist bump.

Jamie Krasnov (54:29.708)
Thank you guys. Just bump back.

Shari Currie Skjoldager (54:30.313)
Yes, Thanks you guys.

Pam Currie (54:32.088)
Bounce back. Thanks a lot.

Clay McKee (54:34.298)
See guys, thank you for having.