Episode 22: Building Success with Homefront Brands – Tom Ryan & Mike Aiello on Top Rail Fence

franchise sisters here
I’m back with another episode of the Franchise Business
radio show
this is your co host Pam Curry and your other co host
Sherry Curry School Taker
Franchise Business
Radio Show is designed to be a platform to educate
and bring business professionals together
to serve aspiring entrepreneurs
looking to invest and operate a franchise
and on today’s show that is exactly what we are doing
because we don’t have just one guest
we have two guests from Homefront Brands
home for brands is a family of brands that cares
specifically representing community accountability
respect excellence and Service
Home from France
is the fastest growing home and property
service platform franchise company
which currently owns Roof Scientist
the designery Window Hero
top rail fence the temporary wall systems
and on this episode
we are gonna focus on top rail fence
however before we dive into our interview
Sherry tell us a little bit about our guest
I would love to we’ve got Tom Ryan
he is the Chief
Development Officer for Homefront Brands
since June of this year
he has a 20+ year career in franchising
he has held a variety of leadership positions
in franchise development
and operations
for over a dozen national franchise companies
Tom lives in Saint Paul Minnesota
Tom with his wife three school age kids
and his one year old Golden Retriever
welcome to the show Tom
thank you
I’m hoping we get a spotlight of the golden retriever
uh absolutely hahaha
we also have Mike Iello interesting listening
love it director of franchise development for Top Rail
Fence and Temporary Wall Systems
before becoming Homefront brand’s first employee
he was the director of operations
for the second largest
Mosquito Squad franchise in the country
Mike was a former D1 athlete
woo hoo in football
and enjoys staying active
when he’s not helping people
start a property service business
and even more exciting news and starting a franchise
Mike is getting married in six weeks
congratulations Mike thank you
thank you thank you
alright before we get started
can I just ask real quick
my I just got
I’m gonna be going to a football game this week
I go every week for my son you’re a D1
1 who did you play for what position
yeah so
I actually
played for a school down here in North Carolina
where I live now in Charlotte
about an hour and a half up the road from Charlotte
is a school called Elon University
yeah small private school D1 double a football
so for those of you searching my name
you’re not gonna find me on the roster at Alabama
or Notre Dame but uh
but it was a great experience
taught me a lot about communication skills
working with people
that come from so many different backgrounds
but again it definitely taught me a lot
and there’s a lot of transfer that
that comes over into business and career
and your work life and things like that
absolutely and I played tight end
I’m sorry I forgot to answer that I played tight end
my favorite positions okay
that’s my favorite name of a player okay
ah Jonathan that’s bad
haha so hey
um Tom
obviously
you’re coming to us with a wealth of industry
knowledge and experience uh
you most recently were very prominent
franchise develop
with very prominent franchise development company
what made you make the move
from there to Homefront Brands
well I suppose I’ve got a quick football story too
because I Learned pretty early
when I think I was 18 years old
when I went to a Notre Dame football camp
my dad’s a Notre Dame alum
and I showed up there and I saw all these 9th
and 10th graders that were bigger and faster than me
I looked around and said
I better get good at something else
because football is not my future
so Mikey made it further than I did
but well
well thank you guys so much
you ladies for having us on
it’s absolutely our pleasure
um I’ve been around for a long time now I
I look at myself in the mirror and I’m like no
I’m not the young guy in the industry
like I keep thinking I am
um but
you know really at the end of the day for me
um you name it kind of industry role
I’ve been there I started my career um
being a manager in a retail
franchise location when I was in college
that then
LED to an opportunity for me
to get involved in a family business
we had a master franchise business that I worked with
my dad and one of my sisters and brother in law
and my mom was certainly out and about with us a lot
too um
and then I
I got involved directly working for franchise companies
beginning in 2010 doing development nationally
um you know I
I Jeff Duden
the founder um
and CEO at Homefront Brands
is a name that certainly a lot of people like myself
that have been in the industry for a long time
we’ve known of that name um
he’s all over the place um
incredibly well respected
but
he’s kind of one of those guys that I always knew of
but I didn’t know and so
I’ve been very fortunate the past few years
to get to know both Jeff and his son Zach
who was my predecessor in this role
and is now our chief growth officer
and you know I
I kind of hit that point when you
when you went through the introduction about Homefront
Brands the family of brands that care
um that part just became really important to me
um you know
I’m in my 40s I have three school age kids
a daughter that’s in high school
a freshman a son that’s a
in middle school a sixth grader
and a my youngest daughter’s in elementary school
and I I’ve been on the road a lot
and I’ve been grinding a lot
and I just decided that
I still have a lot left in my tank
I’m still really very passionate about doing this
but now more than ever
and increasingly as each year goes by
it’s just really important that I do this with people
that I believe in
people that are doing this the right way
and not to say the places I’ve been in the past haven’t
but I just really bought in
to the culture
that is being built here at Homefront Brands
so you know
honestly for me
it was it was a lot less of like vetting the brands
and it was more about vetting the people
um Mike was one of those people that I got to know at a
at a conference and came up to me
I hadn’t met him before and sought me out and said Tom
I want to make sure that I came up and introduce myself
I know that you’re talking to Zach
about maybe coming over here
and we just kind of hit it off
so the biggest thing for me was
was people because I know
if we have the right people involved in this
you know then the rest of this
I don’t want to say is easy
but the rest of it kind of comes naturally
so I’ve only been here since June
I’m still kind of getting my feet wet
um and it’s just been a lot of fun
I am I am rejuvenated
and I am thrilled to be here with you guys today
yeah
but you just hit on some really important topics there
Tom for anyone that even considering a franchise
is getting to know the leadership
the culture
and making sure there’s alignment on that level
that’s
that’s definitely an important piece of the puzzle
yeah
so I know Homefront um
Homefront Brands is relatively new platform company um
seems to be growing quite quickly
uh can you give us a bit
of uh
company history and tell us where the company is today
and what the future looks like
absolutely and look uh
you know let’s be honest
I’m a franchise development guy
right so
so high growth um
certainly is something that’s important
um when you do what I do
but I I would also say that
you know it’s
it’s not just grow to grow
it’s really like this is a company
in a culture that wholeheartedly believes that
you know doing deals and bringing on new owners
um it’s really about
making sure that we’re doing the right deals
with the right owners my dad taught me a long time ago
when I was just getting started in this industry
that sometimes
the best deal you make is the deal that you don’t make
and I truly believe that this company believed in that
so it was important to me that I felt empowered
that we could come in
and we could do this the right way
and it wasn’t about just making a placement
but it was about really being smart and strategic
and partnering with the right people
cause at the end of the day
as you ladies know you know the man
magic happens on the back end
when people are building great businesses
and franchise companies that grow the right way
are able to do so
because they’re generating so many royalty dollars
off of the success of their franchise system
so that was an important part of this to me
so you know
I found Homefront Brands to be at kind of
this perfect level of maturation
um you know
we call this home
we call this halftime at Homefront Brands
and what that means to us is five years ago
Jeff and Mike and the rest of
the few people that were in this office
you know set out a goal where in five years
they wanted to build a company
that had six or seven brands
that had 500 franchisees
that were operating in 15 territories
pretty big audacious goal right for a startup company
and when I was getting recruited over here
um we were right at that thirty uh
month timeline so we were literally halfway there
and we to the number
it was either 250 or 251 franchisees
had literally hit that halfway point
in the number of owners that we onboarded
and literally on the dot
had hit 170 franchises awarded across our
at that time five franchise brands
which you mentioned earlier
so half time at Homefront
so what that told me was
this is a company that only in two and a half
three years has already built an organization
that looks a lot more like a 30 year old company
then it does a three year company
three year old company so that was very important to me
that there was a track record of
pretty incredible success
but obviously
it was also important to me that I saw opportunity
where we could duplicate that
the next 30 years and like I mentioned earlier
duplicate it doing things the right way
so we’re incredibly excited that
you know and
and and very um
you know have a strong uh
level of belief that 30 months from now
we will absolutely if not hit
exceed that Mark of having 500 franchise owners
operating or trading in 15 locations
and my guess is at that time
we will have built the platform up to seven
eight maybe nine companies
so we’re still very much in that growth mode
so
we’re just incredibly excited about the future outlook
that’s great congratulations
yeah you’re
you’re on the right trajectory right
that’s fabulous
and no surprise because Jeff Doogan
like you said has a great reputation
and operational excellence
and then when everybody heard that Tom
Ryan was jumping on board with franchise development
let me tell you Tom
it there was a stir
like it’s about ready to launch
they’ve already got everything they need and they’re
it’s it’s going somewhere
so everybody’s pretty excited about this one
yeah Sherry
that’s nice but it also adds a little bit of pressure
because I’m looking at this and I’m like
I can’t scream come on Tom
like come on
this thing has been you got it
that’s right football huddle
let’s go Tom
that’s right kind of a football thing going on here
half time huddle yeah
that’s right I got the football now
okay so I’ll run with it from here
but no it’s a
you know we
we couldn’t do it um
you know without um
kind of that foundation that we built so it’s
these are hard to find
it’s hard to find opportunities when you do what I do
or you do what Mike does
where it’s this kind of perfect storm of
a ton of opportunity to expand
and grow and watch and be a part of
a lot of people winning but also this like
foundation
where we’re not just building the plane as we fly it
like the plane’s built right
so now
we’re just trying to add more routes between cities
and I will throw in there
Pam Sherry and for anybody listening
something that is sometimes forgotten that’s important
with some of the stats Tom just gave you
over 98
percent of our franchisees are open and operating
and trading in the marketplace
which is very important
when you think about some of the brands
in the franchise space some of them take eight
nine 12 months to even open
everybody that Tom just spoke about
that has come into this business
like I said over
98% of them are open and trading in their local market
which is very very important in my opinion
oh that’s that’s yeah
that is that’s great news
actually Mike
that segways us right into the next question
I’d like to ask you which is
obviously you’re the franchise developer for top real
uh can you share with our listeners the business model
absolutely yeah
so top rail fence we are a full service fence
gate and rail installation model
um so basically we install fences
if anybody hasn’t figured that out yet haha
both residential and commercial
any type of fence product you can think of
our vendors can get their hands on
so wood vinyl
steel chain link
aluminum any type of fence product that we can name
we install what makes us a little bit unique
is actually how we look at the installation method
so we train
all of our franchise owners on how to install fences
so they are subject matter experts in that sense
we do not advise them to get on their hands and knees
and install
we also do not advise them to go out and hire W2
installers right off the bat
as a matter of fact currently right now
we’ve got about 70 franchisees
spread out across the country
all of them use 1099 installers to do the installations
for them so
the strategy
becomes much more of a quality control position
for an owner coordinating the subs
coordinating with the homeowner
making sure that quality is up to par
making sure that production’s good
and the homeowner’s happy
and our thought with that is it keeps fixed overhead
relatively low job cost stay relatively fixed
so typically it’s a big
easier to understand margin from job to job
the biggest piece of support that we have
in my opinion at the franchisee or level
is a centralized contact center
meaning that if somebody does call in to topper
offense of Charleston Asheville Minneapolis
we have somebody who answers the phone
they collect basic information
and they book that homeowner for an in person
quote
for the franchisee to then go perform an in person
quote and the best point about that contact center
it is not a third party it is not overseas
they work in the same headquarters building I work in
in Charlotte North Carolina
so everything is centralized through us
from that standpoint oh
I like that a lot cause that
that can be a game changer
having it centralized and really understanding
what it is that they’re talking
and maybe even up selling
uh it’s nice
um
is it a pretty quick ramp up time since it is uh
low overhead not breaking border
so pretty quick to open yeah
so that kind of comes back to to
you know Homefront brands
our strategy when when we look at making acquisitions
or we look at acquiring brands and
and getting them into the into the platform
um why we decided to get into fencing
was because there’s a lot of demand in fencing
and every single candidate I work with
cause I don’t get burned on this very often
I tell candidates
go call some local fence companies in your marketplace
because I guarantee you if you call 3 companies
one of them probably won’t answer your initial call
which you don’t have to worry about with top Real
but the other people you may get a hold of
they will tell you
they’re booked out three to five days to even come
give you a quote so that shows us
there’s a ton of demand in the market
and demand is not being met
now I’m not sure you know
from a ramp period perspective
if marketing or lead generation comes up
as we go through this today
but in the last four or five training classes
we’ve had franchisees graduate training on a Friday
open their doors on Monday and in the last four
I’ve training classes
we’ve had a franchisee sell their first fence
that Monday being open so in my opinion
like there’s no faster way to ramp a business
than selling something the first day you’re being open
yeah that’s fast
so that kind of leads into the question of customer
acquisition what
what is the standard uh customer
is it more SEO or just give our viewers
our listeners different verticals
yeah yeah
so across top
real fence and really any of the brands on Homefront
you know
we can’t just rely on one strategy for marketing
you know marketing in my opinion is is an ever
it’s a living breathing thing
it’s changing it’s evolving over time
so we look at lead gen and customer acquisition
broken into five buckets
across all the brands at Homefront
but for Top Real specifically
where a majority of the leads are gonna come from is
from paid media so right now
and how I explain it
in the same way that we have vendors for materials
products things like that
we have digital marketing partners
so those are third party agencies
that are part of our vendor alliance program
when we introduce a new franchisee into Top Real
they’re allowed to interview our marketing agencies
but we share with the the new owner hey
95% of the system is currently using this agency
and here’s the data behind it
here’s how much people are spend
the return the cost per lead
so yes a majority of the leads right now
Sherry are largely coming from meta
your Facebook your Instagram leads
or your Google pay per click in your Google LSA
where we assist in that is
when a franchisee spends money on the digital side
and they’re meeting with us internally
on a weekly basis we’re
we’re gonna review the results of that campaign
with them so if we do identify that in Charleston
South Carolina Google performs way better than meta
we’re gonna coach the franchisee
to push more money through Google
and vice versa
if that’s coming through a different source
or a different channel yeah
that’s great and that yeah
everybody wants to know that
you can get customers
through the support of the corporate headquarters
cause it’s a lot of franchises that
doesn’t necessarily happen
so that’s huge and luckily right now
and I again
I share with candidates and I’ll knock on wood
marketing is not a pain point in our business model
at the moment and I say it with confidence
because I expect candidates to verify it
when they talk to our owners
but the franchisees
that are spending the proper marketing dollars
are seeing return on those
it’s a good thing that is a really good thing
and are there different revenue
can you talk a little bit about your revenue patterns
um is there any recurring is
is it big project based what
what is it for yeah
that’s a great question
so usually in most in most businesses
especially in property service
commercial jobs are gonna have a much higher ticket
right so what we’ve identified
or what we’ve Learned on the commercial side is
we see franchisees do’em across the system
right now it’s about an 80
20 split from residential to commercial
residential is much more low hanging fruit when we talk
when we just talked about demand
but also
what we’ve kind of figured out is for a new franchisee
if they’re 90 days into this business
and they go and try and quote
a job at a middle school or a high school
and it’s a massive job at some
some point somebody
who’s working that job is gonna ask the business owner
hey how long have you been doing this
like how long have you had this business for
so usually commercial is more of a growth lever
that some of our owners will pull on
after about 10 to 12 months into the business
but from an uh
from a reoccurring aspect
how I look at you know
now working with temp Wall and Top Rail
there’s pros and cons to each business
any business is gonna have pros and cons
one of the cons with Top Rail is
it’s typically not as reoccurring
as some other businesses
because it is a one and done service
but a high ticket high margin service
now one service
we just launched with top rail
at the beginning of this year
is staining so
staining
is actually something that you can do to a wood fence
it basically refurbishes the fence
makes it look brand new it’s usually a one man job
it’s not something you need to subcontract
the labor for
it is a high margin job as well and it is recurring
so we now have a workflow stood up with all of our
franchisees
where if somebody puts a wood fence in the ground
six months later
that homeowner is gonna get dripped into a staining
campaign letting them know that
we can now come back and stain their fence
here’s what it may look like
it’s gonna look brand new etcetera etcetera
so
that is one recurring service that our franchisees tap
have tapped into
love it I love it
because a lot of people get one or the other
big ticket item allows you to cash flow quickly right
you get in there
you have you immediately get some money
jump back into the next business
recurring is a little bit of a slower uh ride
but it it’s recurring we all like it
so you guys are trying to find a nice blend
between the two uh that’s a nice setup um
what about
you already mentioned when people first come on board
I think you said you use contractors for your uh
installers um
so can you share a little bit more about that
it what’s the labor like is it skilled
is it unskilled is that licensing requirement
no licensing requirement
tell us a little bit about that
yeah great question
a majority of the states in the country
actually
one thing that is a benefit in the fencing business
is a majority of states in this country
do not require you to have a specific
specialty license to start a fencing business um
so again something from a barrier to entry perspective
very attractive
when you’re working in a trades business
now one thing that we like about 1099 installers
and I share this with
candidates
there is no shortage of them across the country
and again something I say with confidence because I
eventually
I expect them to back it up when they speak to the
franchisees or they speak to our brand president
but with those 70 locations
we have not had a franchisee ever come to us and say
they cannot find installers in the marketplace
and there’s two main reasons why
we are pretty reliant on 1099
number one
is that you don’t want to be constrained labor wise
and what we picked up on in the fencing space is
there are mom and pop fence dealers out there
that have been open for 10
20 years they are usually W2 model based
so they have a team of 8
9 installers that they use over a 12 month period
that’s great they built a great business that way
but those are the companies that get booked out
six to 12 weeks for installations
because they’re at the will of their labor
our model’s a little bit different
you’re not limited to just using one crew
as a matter of fact
one of our best owners out in Denver
Colorado back in April of this year
he was using 8 9 different crews
and it allowed him to do 35 installs in a single week
so we like the fact that when you need it
as volume dictates it you can bring other crews in
now the other piece with that is that
we’re firm believers
that you should tie your labor expense
directly to revenue so in the months in Denver uh
Colorado when revenue dips in late November
December and January inevitably it will
you’re not on the hook for paying your installers
40 hours a week
if they’re not installing 40 hours a week
so again by tying labor directly to revenue
when revenue when volume dictates it
you can bring more crews in
when revenue dips a little bit
you’re not on the hook for paying those installers um
now from a profile perspective
one thing I do like
especially from working in the mosquito squad business
those are general labor employees
you know for you
I don’t want to get too deep into it
but you can train just about anybody
to spray a backyard with a blower on their back
a little bit different in the fencing space
now what I’ve identified for those general labor type
people that you’re looking for
to do those businesses
like mosquito control or moving and storage
things like that that type of general labor person
typically doesn’t love to work right
so they they’re it’s not a lot of skill involved
it’s tough to get those guys to work 40 hours a week
when using installers in the fencing space
those guys love to work
so if a franchisee needs to move a job to his
Saturday you’re typically not begging
these guys to come work with
come work for you because they want to get paid
so working late in the day
working on Saturdays or weekends
that is something that the labor force
a lot of our franchisees use
is not a problem from a time perspective
wow that’s all that’s great information and great well
I actually one of my questions
what makes you all different
I’m not sure if
maybe you’ve already covered a lot of it
but do you want to
is there anything else that we’ve missed in regards to
what makes top real different from say
other fencing franchises or competitors
yeah I would say so it is interesting
you know there
there is no patented piece of technology
that allows us to install fences
faster than anybody else
but that’s okay because
nobody else has a piece of technology like that right
there’s only so many different ways to install a fence
so I would the biggest differentiator that not only
separates us from other competitors
in the franchise space but also
your mom and pops
is gonna be the centralized contact center right
you know the thought for a franchisee
where if you don’t ever have to worry about answering
inbound calls or following up with inbound leads
and things like that that is from a cost perspective
from a scalability perspective
it is extremely difficult to recreate that
at the local level
so that’s why we have the contact center
it’s something Jeff Duden firmly believes in
he did it for 20 years in advance clean um
so it was non negotiable for us
when we started looking at doing this type of business
uh so it’s gonna be the contact center
the marketing piece we’ve already talked about
has become a superpower for us at
these do do rate
like they grade very well when they’re asked about
what is the support like from the internal brand team
yeah Sherry and Mike
I you know
I I gotta just chime in for a second
although the value of me as you guys can see
as we’re talking about top real
Mike’s got that covered um
but I I just wanted to add
like all those answers Mike just gave you
if you summarize it it’s the power of the platform
it it go
it goes back to yeah
we’re a three year old company
but when you start diving into it
we look like that 30 year old company
yeah you know
Top Rail is 60 70 owners
but we’re a company that looks like we’re
you know a 300 owner franchise brand
so there’s and
and the fact that like
we’re not just a fencing franchise
uh platform
we are a home and property
service platform there is a lot
whether it’s in AI whether it’s in call center data
whether it’s in marketing data
whether it’s in learnings
from those net promoter scores
or training feedback like
there’s a lot that we can learn at Top Row Fence
that we actually learn from Window Hero
one of our window cleaning brand
there’s a lot that Window
Hero can learn from temporary wall systems
like it’s this kind of internal community that we have
where the organization is so much larger
than any one of our parts
and it drives a lot of that value
and differentiators that Mike was talking about
I’m glad you brought that up Tom
cause I was gonna ask if
when you think about those support systems
if it crossed over into the other brands as well
and it sounds like it does
the contact center
the digital marketing vendor alliances
yeah okay
that’s exactly right
so think about it as like Home Office
and then it’s like a support tree that goes down into
uh you know platform
uh cross functionality across all of our brands
but then in addition to that
we have the brand trees that are subject matter experts
specifically brand by brand makes sense
and I know you’re building out each one of those brands
so we might not be here yet
but like you said you’re at halftime
as you start this growth pattern in all of the brands
do you foresee a community of referral
partnerships between the franchisees
that that that
absolutely absolutely
and and in fact
what’s already now beginning is we are seeing
you know
cross brand expansion within our franchise system
oh okay
so we see a we see a big opportunity there as well
I think one of the you know
harsh realities in franchising is it’s like
you know waterfront real estate
it’s not indefinite right
you can’t go create more unless you’re in
you know Abu Dhabi or somewhere
the Middle East where we’re creating lakefront
you know islands
but it’s you know
we have a
there’s a finite number of territories that we can sell
there just is so
I think one of the really attractive things
in being part of a platform is
when people start looking for expansion opportunity
not only do we think that they can look
within that specific brand
at some point
everyone’s gonna be looking for an exit strategy right
it’s a universal truth in franchising
so acquiring a neighbor that’s looking to retire
or whatever it might be
but there’s also gonna be opportunity then
for our franchise owners to say interesting
I have a fencing company it might make sense
there might be a lot of kind of cross functionality
things that I can learn
if I expand into the homefront roofing concept
which is roof scientist so I
I think it just opens up a lot of avenues of
of opportunity for growth
yeah I’m glad she’s
that that
because I always share with our
with our clients
that scalability can come in a lot of different ways
uh so you
and you just hit on a couple of those scalability pass
so that’s great yup
I say the same thing Pam
I always say you know I mean
at the end of the day
how you enter this business and where you end up
five or 10 years down the road
those two like moments in time
or places should look incredibly different right
I mean we
we look back on this and
and laugh seven years later and say ma’am
remember when I bought that one territory
the top rail and first time I’d ever owned a business
I’d never owned a franchise before
and now look at where I am now
those the
part of the fun in this whole thing is that
those two places should have been absolutely well uh
Mike let’s talk a little bit about uh
top rails system growth uh
how many franchisees do you currently have
and do you happen to know
how many of them are multi unit franchisees
yeah it’s a great question
so with Top Real like I said
you know just about 70 franchisees
we launched Top Real in February 23
so it’s been just over two and a half years
so a lot of our franchisees are in
their first two years of business
their first two two and a half years of business
I like that because every candidate I work with
I tell them that and I say hey
everybody you speak to
this is
where they’re at and you’re gonna learn two things
number one
what do earnings look like in your first two years
and number two you know
what can be done in terms of lifestyle balance
you know in terms of scalability
ROI paying back your initial investment
how quickly can I do that in a two year period
um so it’s kind of a good stage right
you know there’s some brands where
it’s only been around for three months we
I I remember doing that two and a half years ago
it’s a bit of a challenge
because
you can’t really speak to people that are doing it
every single day
so if you were to take Pam
the total number of territories that we awarded
and divided by the number of franchisees that we have
the system average comes out to about 2.8 territories
per franchisee
so most people do start with two to three territories
now what is nice about a property service business
like Top Real is by doing more than one territory
it does not mean that your
investment doubles or triples um
the only thing that largely changes
is the initial franchise fee
when you acquire those territories up front
so even some of the owners
we’ve had
that have started with five or six territories
they start the exact same way somebody starts with one
and they grow into those territories over time um
now what I share with candidates too
that’s pretty exciting about us
if you look at 2024
our No. 1 franchisee was a two territory owner
No. 3 was a two territory owner
No. 5 or 6 was a two territory owner
so I do like sharing that with candidates
because there are brands and I’ve seen it before
where you talk to the the third best franchisee
and you come to find out that she owns 11 territories
and you’re like great
now
I have to invest in 11 territories up front to do what
what she’s achieved
largely not the case in our system at the moment
it’s good to know and what about uh
I guess your vision are you focused on for top rail
are you focused on growing in a certain
section of the US domestically
is it I mean
where is everybody haha yeah yeah
so like a lot of proper like a lot of franchise brands
you know cause I get that question all the time
where
I work with somebody out in the Pacific Northwest
and they ask the question
hey you know
I see you guys have a few locations out here
but why is everybody on the East Coast
and it took me a little bit to understand why
a majority of the population lives on the East Coast
and if you look at the history of any franchise
business usually they’re dominated on the East Coast
um so for us
you know being headquartered in Charlotte
North Carolina majority
of our initial franchisees
were in the southeast and the southwest
and again
I think if you look at the history of business
franchise businesses that’s usually what happens
a lot of the migration is moving down south
uh there’s a lot more people there
there’s a lot of opportunity there
so we do we still have great territories available
in both the southeast and the southwest
but some markets that are a bit untapped for us
Northern New Jersey which is where I’m originally from
still have a ton of white space up there
areas in the country like Wisconsin
Pennsylvania New York
Massachusetts um
a lot of white space in those areas
now I say that
and some people gravitate towards seasonality
is that a factor in our business
um no
not necessarily
we have awesome franchisees in areas like Chicago
Detroit Denver
Colorado
and even the No. 1 guy last year was in Richmond
Virginia which again isn’t
you know doesn’t get six feet of snow in the winter
but they still get a foot of snow every year
um so again seasonality
there’s not a correlation in our system
between where you’re located
and how well you can do in this business
which is really nice
you mentioned um
in regards to what you are looking for in a franchisee
you like the idea of someone who is
I don’t know business minded
uh tell us
a little bit more about what you’re really looking for
in a franchisee yeah
so for our model you know what we
if we’ve been doing this for over two and a half years
you’d like to think we’ve Learned something
and we have and we’ve Learned a lot
but one of the biggest things we’ve Learned is that
this is an owner operator based model
you know from an ideal candidate perspective
we look for people that want to burn the boats
and go all into this business from day one
and you know as we work together with
I work together with people like that
through the process
I can show them that there is opportunity there
and there is demand there
which sometimes we all know here
it’s scary to go all into something like that um
so somebody who’s ready to make a significant change
and go all into their business from day one
that’s my perfect candidate to get a little bit further
it’s somebody who has a corporate sales experience
technology sales med device sales
pharmaceutical sales that’s not required
you know
we’re pretty confident we can teach you on how to
how to sell offense
but there is a number of franchisees in our system
who have come from backgrounds like that
that are some of the top performers in the
in the system right now um
so that I
there must be some form of a correlation there
that with their background
they’re used to selling products like I just described
and they’re a
little bit more comfortable selling fences
because they’re extroverted
they’re strong communicators
and they enjoy talking and working with people
every day in person
have you ever had the franchisee
let’s say that has more of that engineering mind
more operationally strong
and maybe they hire out the sales side
do you see that in your system at all
yeah we sure have
and that’s something I walk through with the candidate
if they’re
if they admit that they’re introverted by all means
you know we we hire to your weaknesses right
so that
we have a few franchisees who have done exactly that
but I’ll even share something quick
one of our newest franchisees in Frederick uh
Fredericksburg Virginia um
he was self admitted it his entire career
and when we first started our process together
the development process he told me he’s like
I’m not a salesperson
I have no interest in doing the sales
towards the end of the process
right before he executed his franchise agreement
I had asked him you know hey
are you still thinking about hiring the sales piece
and he said honestly now that I’ve spoken to 5
6 owners throughout this process
I’m pretty confident I’m capable of doing it
so because everybody else in our system
those 70 owners I don’t care if they had 20
30 years of sales experience
they had still never sold a fence before
so it is brand new to every single person and again
we’re pretty confident sales is a Learned trait
we can teach you on how to sell um
so yeah I always thought that he was a
he’s a newer owner and I remember that specifically
so he basically discovered himself
after speaking with a lot of our owners
that he’s capable of doing the sales piece
and he is a self admitted introverted person
I I was gonna just add real quick
I I think what is in particular in home services
so
we talk about being home service and property service
well really what we’re talking about is you know
we’re we’re doing B to B and we’re doing B to C
but as Mike alluded to earlier
a majority of what we do is that B to C
it’s the home
you know I
I just I think it’s interesting in
in home services that think about it this way
we’ve all had the door knockers at our house
we’ve all had the fence company
come out and give us a bid
we’ve all had the window covering company
come out and give us a bid
we’ve all had the plumber show up that you know
showed up in his beat up red truck
uh pickup truck Earl and smelled like a cigarette
like we’ve all had the good experience
and we’ve all had the bad experience
so like
just reminding yourself that the most
important thing to do is to get off the couch
and go do it and remind yourself
do it in the manner that looks a lot
with the one time you were surprised
and you had a positive experience
with a home service company at your house
it ain’t rocket science right
it’s just doing the little things and bringing
bringing a level of professionalism
and listening to homeowners wants needs
desires concerns and being solution oriented for them
so I I just really think that like to Mike’s point
that’s an important one like
when we talk about the sales experience that we like
of course it’s a nice added benefit
but really just like helping people understand
like be that trusted person within your community
and you know what that looks like
because you’ve been on the receiving end of it as well
agreed
Sherry do you want to talk about
what everybody wants to hear about
which is money I know everybody wants to know that
everybody who’s getting into a franchise
they want to know how much is it gonna cost me
and how much money can I make right
that’s right fair questions
appropriate ones it’s a fair and appropriate question
sometimes
you get that information directly from the franchisee
or other times we gotta little
dig a little bit deeper and get to those franchisees
to get to the more granular
how much we can make but we know that the franchisee
or who we’re speaking with right now
can at least definitely give us details on how
much does it cost to open up a top rail
what’s the investment range
got you yeah absolutely and again
like you said Sherry something we
we look at pretty in depth
because some people’s situations are different
in terms of territory availability and
you know what they can afford
and one thing we’re very adamant about a top rail is
you know somebody’s juggling the
the decision of do I start with three territories
do I start with two
we are always on the side at Homefront Brands
that you should be well
capitalized with what you’re doing
so that’s something we’ll look at together
because everybody’s situation is different um
now for a single territory for Top Rail Fence
everything needed to get the business started
from initial fee tools
equipment
technology all the way down to additional funds um
somebody can be all into this business
for a single territory for anywhere between 1
65 and uh the high end goes up to two 97
somebody just asked me Point Blank off the street
to be conservative I always gravitate towards 1
let’s say one 80 to 2
20 is a good range for somebody to think about um
now just for multi territory for us
for two territories to start
because it is pretty popular
everything needed to get the business launched
to be conservative anywhere between 2:20 and 2:50
is typically what we see okay
so we’re just adding on an extra little bit of a
franchise fee it sounds like yep
the only thing that changes is that initial fee yep
yeah so that’s kind of a get a
get a lot more territory to work in for
and you have everything
you need from that first territory
that can easily carry over into that second
which is nice um
all right so now that we understand the
the cost of entry to get in there
everybody always wants to have an
idea of how much money they can make
so do you guys have an item 19
that’s where we see financial performance
representation for franchisees
and if you do can you share a little bit about that
yeah we sure do and you know
my opinion the best place to get information from
for from a financial position from uh
for candidates is from the franchisees
which is why every Thursday
we host a group call with a different franchisee
every week
um because the item 19 you know
you could you want to understand what’s attainable
or what’s been done
but still you do want to talk to really
you want to talk to good owners
middle of the pack owners
maybe somebody who just started so again
we try and put you know
different people on that call every week
that are in different stages um
but just to run through briefly
what candidates will see in the item 19
for the first section
we have a gross sales numbers and what we did was
took a pool of 20 owners
that were open for at least 12 months
in 2024 broke them out into the top third
the middle third and the bottom third
um the average gross sales
for a top third owner in our system
is just under 2.3 million
in a 12 month period now
what is more exciting to know is the seven owners that
that data was pulled from
their average age is 22 months of operating
so they have not been open for five or 10 years
basically yes
now anybody’s top third can look good
the middle third
the average gross sales is just under a million
in a 12 month period it’s about 9 21
um even more exciting
the average age of those seven
middle third owners is 15 months of operating
so again from a ramp period perspective
you know
we have franchisees doing just under $1 million
in a 12 month period where on average
they’ve only been open for 15 months
um just other key things in the item 19
average gross or I’m sorry
average ticket size for a uh
for a top real franchisee is right around fifty
five hundred dollars and there’s a great exercise
I’ll do with candidates on our unit economics call
where an average job is fifty five hundred
I can share with you that
an average
subcontract crew can do an average job in a day
and then we’ll do an exercise how
many jobs we coach owners to do in their first 30 days
60 90 days etcetera
the last uh
important piece of information is close rate
our average close rate proposal
conversion rate for top real owners is just under 32%
it’s 31.7% I’m a firm believer
if you’re closing one out of three leads
in any business that’s really good
and kind of the same thought process
when we get on that unit economics call
we’ll talk about how many quotes
and how many estimates can a normal owner or
normal salesperson do in a day
so again you know
we’re firm believers at Homefront
math is the path and our best owners in top real
that’s how they look at this business
it’s a numbers game just like any business
how many leads can I or how many uh appointments
estimates can I do in a day
how many jobs am I capable of doing like installs
and then the last question is
how much do I need to spend in marketing
to ensure that my calendar is full
and what should my close rate be
in order to make sure I have those jobs every day
so my Mike had talked about just a few minutes ago
how this is a owner operator model at Top Row Fence
meaning you know specifically for this concept
we are looking
for people that are going to make the hard transition
and be the lead in this business from day one
you now can kind of see how we can get away with that
and why we we really enforce that
and the reason is you know
the unit economics at top row fence are incredible
and if we get somebody as Mike said
that burns the boat I would say that you know
really goes all in on this unapologetically
there is a pathway
quite quickly for a lot of management
white collar corporate America
people in a blue collar home service business
to get to a point
where they can justify making that transition
and being able to replace some
meaningful corporate America income
so I I just thought that’s important
we got a very robust item 19
but as Mike said more importantly
when people start getting the real stories
from the owners in our validation process
you know this
this data is already old
because it was published as of 12:31 of last year
so each passing year
we get more and more excited about having a re
disclosure of charity information yeah
I imagine you’re item 19 like you said
it’s gonna get stronger and stronger and stronger
and people
I love that you guys have a ongoing validation process
so people can sit in and really absorb that data
and really get into the more minuscule numbers
which we know you can’t share as much
but we know that the franchisees can share
so they can get to those numbers
and really understand their
path to success which is that’s right
and and Mike had alluded to unit economics
really what we’re talking about
our role there in that step of the process
is providing them with a meaningful tool
where they can couple
with the information they gather from owners
and the real raw data that they see in the um FDD
they quite simply
can put together projections that are reliable
easy to understand
to kind of see that whole math is the path
to be able to paint that picture
and understand the year in economics
pretty quick
math is the path that’s interesting
guys
thank you so much for being um guest on the show and uh
Sherry and I like to close out the show uh
with a very important final question and uh
I don’t know who wants to go first here Tom
why don’t we kick it off with you and then Mike
I want to ask you the same question as well okay
and the question is this in closing
what tips would you give to budding entrepreneurs Tom
that’s a big one um loaded one alright
I’m going to um
I’m gonna tighten it up a little bit um
to our industry I’m gonna talk about to um
to uh aspiring franchise owners okay
um cause I think it’ll I can be more succinct here
what what I would say is I think the biggest
most common
and costly mistake that new franchise owners make
over and over and over again is they buy
they buy into the system they go through the training
they get the best practices
and within a couple of months
they get that entrepreneurial itch where they say
I know that this is the way that I should do it
but I really wanna try this right
and they start veering off
because they just can’t help themselves
and they
they veer off and they’ve got some marketing idea
and they don’t call the franchise
or to ask if it’s ever been tried and worked before
they just hire the marketing company
and they throw five or 10 grand at it
and two months later they’re like man
why does my PNL look all wonky
and why didn’t that work like stay on the path
exhaust all of the training all in the LND
all of the LND all of the best practices
use it all like
be the most picture perfect
system follower that you possibly can be
because all that’s gonna happen if you do that
is you’re gonna realize a
it works b
now I’m making money and then when you get that itch
you’re gonna revisit it like two
three years down the road
and you’re gonna try something
but my God
try it after you’ve exhausted the entire process
and try it when you’re making money
and it’s not gonna hurt
too bad if what you try doesn’t work yeah
exactly take advantage of what
you’re licensing the rights to that
proven methods of operation
stick with it right
I get it okay
Mike your turn
what tips would you give to budding
aspiring entrepreneurs
well Tom just made me think of it too
and he kind of stole it I was
he just said a nice way of me saying
avoid genius attacks
because what Tom just described is a genius attack
which we’re all guilty of all the time
good entrepreneurs are guilty of them
so what Tom had just said of
you know
waiting until the time is right to have a genius attack
and then see what happens
but also like Tom said too
trusting the process you know
there’s a reason when people come and work with us
that they’re looking at a franchise business
you know franchising is not for everybody
but franchising
typically means you have to follow a process
and you need to trust that process um
you know with trusting the process
we can’t guarantee
that you’re gonna be Uber successful in this business
but what we can guarantee is if you do trust us
you follow our process
you have a much better chance of being successful
compared to somebody who’s not doing it
so we know that for a fact um
anything else I would give to people is
embrace the grind but you know
don’t ever lose sight of the vision
there’s a reason why people uh
start a business or there’s a
reason
why people bet on themselves in a business like this
and it’s typically because they have a why
and it takes people time to understand
what is their real why is it the money
is it time with their family
is it hating what they’re currently doing
um I’m also a firm believer that anything worth doing
is worth overdoing so if you’re gonna
if you’re gonna go all in on a business
you know
don’t look back and we just use the term burn the boats
go all in um
you know we’ve just seen it time and time
and time and time again with some of our owners
that’s exactly what you need to do
in order to be very successful in this business
and the last thing I would say is
surround yourself with the people you trust
and the people you want to be aligned with
you know there’s that saying
that you’re a product
of the three people you spend the most time with
that’s why I decided to come work for Jeff Duncan
I wanted to be around that guy
you know I
I was hoping that stat was true
so if he was one of the three people
I spend a lot of time with
maybe it’ll rub off on me uh
and I like to think it has
ha ha
great advice great advice
well thanks again
for being a guest on the Franchise Business Radio show
and also just want to say to our listeners
if franchise business
ownership is something that you are considering
contact us don’t go about it by yourself
we want to be your resources
to help you navigate the process
of selecting a franchise investing in a franchise
to get to a point where you’re operating a franchise
we also would welcome
having a complimentary franchise consultation
call with you and giving you a book
top 10 questions to consider
before investing in a franchise
we like to say investigate before you invest
that’s right Pam
the goal is to put you in a position to make a wise
franchise decision dodge costly mistakes
and achieve financial independence
thanks for tuning in
this is the franchise sisters signing off fist bump